Comments on “New Earth, Big Lie”

Wasn’t there a bit from Illuminatus, something like: “If all is one, then all violence is masochism”. “Yes”, ? replied nastily, “and then all sex is masturbation”. Also see here.

You actually make Tolle’s work sound more worthwhile than my extremely superficial impressions of it led me to believe.

I have trouble considering something like “you are god” an error or lie, exactly. Both “you” and “god” have highly indeterminate meanings and may not refer to anything concrete at all; so equating them represents a certain attitude of mind, but not (in my view) a factual error. It’s not necessarily an interesting or productive or enlightening attitude, so it may be a spiritual error, I suppose.

Maybe I’ll pose that as a challenge to to you (or a suggestion for a topic/page in your evolving treatise) to address the meta-level issue of how exactly do you evaluate and filter these sorts of spiritual/metaphysical ideas? What standards are there, other than personal taste, or consquentialism (people who believe in monism are more unhappy or start more wars, or something like that) or authority?

I am ashamed to say I never heard of Tolle until twho weeks ago when a Zen blogger said he loved his writing. I ignored this until today and then I saw your post. Wow, what have I been missing. It shows the limited demographics I run in nowadays. But after reading your article,
I still don’t know anything about Tolle except that he offers monistic dribble instead of dualistic dribble. But wait, you thought he lots of stuff right. Oh and you did say it was “system free” (I loved that concept), and you exposed his technique of just saying something over and over without evidence. But are you going to write a follow-up “post” on this, or did you just want to tell us that Tolle is example of the monism which you are going to tell us more about later?

The Wiki article on Tolle helped. You tell us that Tolle’s falsity is just obviously false – but this seemed a bit of a cheap move since it is not “obvious” to millions – including that Zen blogger. Mind you, having read you, I deeply suspect you are right. But I was hoping for more substance.

You then mention 2 ways to deal with Tolle’s monism: (1) show it has bad consequences – but that sounds like it is a tough strategy. I must say, the major problem I have with many religions is the dualism which results in exclusivism (we live forever, you burn in hell) and thus my Atheist site. But liberal Christians and New Agers and probably Tolle monists strike me as tolerant and not as harmful to society from the exclusivist angle. Yet I have not liked the intellectual habits of these folks though I have had a hard time pinning it down. I wondered if those habits would have long term consequence that could be exposed. But such a venture is far to ambitious, I am afraid.

So that leads to your 2nd option – present a better alternative to monism and dualism. So I guess we wait. But a few examples of internal inconsistencies would have be nice, since you hinted at that (I think) as a 3rd method. One more post, please.

Also, though Zen would seem a very natural home for me within Buddhism since I am a Japanophile to some degree (speak Japanese, play Go, practiced Japanese martial arts, love some anime [especially the monistic/animistic stuff…), nonetheless, many American Zen authors and practitioners seem to have many of the traits you allude to in criticizing monism. And it is for that exact reason that I find them unfortunately unpalatable for a large part. Do you have any of this experience. How deeply has monism affected American Buddhism? I kind of remember reading about an academic that discusses Buddhism’s adaptation to the West – and thus its evolution away from Asian Buddhism. The evolution probably incorporates pragmatism, German idealism (monism) and scientific flavoring. Do you know the name of that text or one like it that you’d recommend? [or are you writing it?] Smile

I must say that after your teaser-review, I am a bit tempted to read him just to see how this apparent best-seller which escaped my demographics is such a temptation to others. I guess a lists of the strengths of Tolle was something else you did not offer. But it sounds like it is coming. Sounds like the first commentor found nothing of value.

Do you know the demographics of those enthralled with him?

As I said in my last blog post, I don’t think you can argue with religion, generally speaking. But it isn’t just a matter of personal taste either, some stuff does seem to be better than others, and some of it seems downright fraudulent, but I don’t really know how to characterize the differences.

I do think it is an error (maybe just a tactical one) to call monism an error or a lie. Because there are senses in which it is true. I prefer Minsky’s quip that it is a “mind-destroying idea”, except with the non-Minskyean twist that sometimes destroying your mind is exactly what you want to do…in a manner of speaking.

If monism leads to an inability to make any distinctions, or to complacency, or ennui, then it’s an error. But if it is instead employed judiciously, as an antidote to taking boundaries too seriously, too fixedly, then it may be useful.

So, monism as a system may be an error, but monism as a tool, maybe not so much.

I think the reason so many people find Tolle’s books appealing is that he addresses a problem characterisic of our modern age: that of the incessant stream of patterns of conditioned thinking leading to anxiety and worry. His books help one cope with these types of thinking. Being so popular and commanding a pretty wide range or admirers, I am sure that people find different things in his teachings, but fundamentally, he mainly address these sort of mental overthinking problems that people are prone to and gives concrete advice on how to overcome them.

So I don’t think you need to look too far, if you are trying to understand Tolle’s appeal.

I don’t see much difference between Tolle’s teaching and Buddhism at a fundamental level.

As David Loy argues in the article below, if an attempt is made to describe emptiness from an external, objective point of view the conclusion “All is Self” may be arrived at, whereas if it is described from a first-person, phenomenological perspective there is no self.

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-AN/26715.htm

Hi David

Yes I came across your other comments after I posted. But like your comments above, I did not find much of an actual argument against Loy’s reasoning.

I find his analogy with Wittgenstein and the view that if there is only one thing, described from the outside (which of course strictly speaking is impossible) this will be One but from the inside it will be nothing (because there is nothing to contrast it with) makes some sense.

Part of the problem here is the implicit “metaphysics of grammar” and the falsifications and distinctions it creates between nouns and verbs, subjects and predicates and so on- Loy has another article somewhere on Nietzsche, Nagarjuna and the limits of language which I also found interesting.

There are not that many Western trained philosophers who are also conversant with Buddhism. Along with Jay Garfield, I think David Loy is well worth checking out.

Thanks David

Good luck with the project - I appreciate it will take some time and effort.

I am off on a week’s self-retreat and the last thing I want is to get stuck in philosophising mode, so I will stop thinking about this now.

Hi David

Good luck in your project of abolishing the Hindu-Monist abomination. This is important work you are doing.

To seriously address monism from the perspective of Analytical Philosophy, you would need to address the work of Jonathon Schaeffer, the leader in the field (the new age fundies are not on to him yet but they soon will be):
http://www.jonathanschaffer.org/monism.pdf

We will be working with Dalit Buddhists to eliminate the Hindu abomination. Refer below for details of the foundation of the Revolutionary Party:
http://strangetimes.lastsuperpower.net/?p=2239&cpage=1#comment-13680

If you are willing to attack Schaffer’s paper the good on you!

I attempted to have a go at it a while back but found it all so incredibly boring and tedious I just couldn’t keep my eyes.

I tried repeatedly. And tried .

And tried

Till I slept

To the point of extinction.

My copy of the Tao Te Ching fell to the floor.

....

And the some shiny, happy dickhead with a sparkling copy of “The Power of Now”
woke me up.

Lots of typos in that last post.

That’s what Lao Tzu does to you.

It is really strange to read someone who actually just flat out declares that the concept “You are God” is “wrong.”

You think your intrinsically limited and overreaching intellect is superior to the point where you can actually definitively say whether that concept is “right” or “wrong”?

You seem unaware of your hypocrisy, where you attack Tolle for saying his “truth” plainly and without bothering to defend and explain it from some intellectual/historic/sociological/ religious stance. And yet you can state your equally simple truth “he is wrong” and also give absolutely no explanation.

If someone says, “we are all God” and you say “no, we’re not” -you are different from them, how?

And if they say “we are all God” because they had the experience of understanding that inside themselves, and you say “no we’re not” because you have not had that experience, you attempt to negate and refuse another’s experience, and believe everyone else should as well. But from what wisdom are you speaking?

You feel a need to assert your intellect in a place that is explicitly and by definition beyond the intellect, encompassing it, but not limited to it or contained by it or defined by it.

The understanding that “we are all God” is, regardless of how your mind perceives it, something countless human beings have arrived at, and saying it in this way is as simple and elegant as the realization can be expressed in words.

What I like about Tolle’s Power of Now (I haven’t read his recent book that you are attacking but I feel confident it is based entirely in the same principles) is that he simply discusses Being, without embellishment or unnecessary explanation, and this is definitely the only way to say it, because anyway you can’t entirely and satisfyingly and rationally explain why the teaching is true to someone who needs that kind of explanation, and whose ego is positioned to say “it is wrong” anyway – needs to believe it is wrong.

Also it seems your application of a critique of “monism” - even though you haven’t actually provided it yet – really doesn’t make sense as Tolle is not promoting a faith or religious system, but affirming the potential for a conscious experience of Being, which transcends all systems.

You write:
I find the claims that “All is Self” and “there is no self” are both absurd, the claim that they mean the same thing is absurdity squared, and his argument is thoroughly unconvincing.

Again, this isn’t an area where intellectual “argument” is useful or meaningful at all, which is why you can’t transmit this kind of knowledge through words and books successfully alone, though if someone is engaged in their own spiritual development/practice/awareness, the words can be tremendously powerful and useful at just the right moment, when they can be “heard.” You can call it “God” or “Being” or “Self” or something else, or nothing, but it isn’t something experienced through the mind and in the realm of time and polarity.

So you seem to be someone who can’t “hear” it, because you haven’t had any experience of it yourself yet, so you really appear foolish trying to intellectually argue for or against any of these teachings. Because even if you don’t believe something is true, what do you know about it? Do you really know? No, you don’t actually know, so honestly who cares whether you find it true or not? You are ignorant and in the dark about your true nature, like most people, so it would be better to admit it and seek your own knowledge without expounding blindly as a self-important intellectual. We are talking in realms that transcend the ego and intellect.

David, I am so glad I follow these comment threads. This reply was written superbly – any atheist would admire this – and such admiration may help them read further and be challenged.

You have little faith.

I have been engaged in long and heated discussion with a colleague of mine in which I deride Tolle while he extols him…most recently, in a somewhat conciliatory spirit, I have conceded that perhaps Tolle has found a way of being connected with the present, with other people, etc., but his explanation of the middle part — how he got there, how other people might be able to get there, the principal issues to keep in mind, and the supposition, unassailable according to Tolle’s framework of thinking, that unhappiness is the causally determined result of dissatisfaction with the past/future — is fundamentally incorrect. Because the explanation is incorrect, the result seems desirable, but attainable, while the strategies for following what may be called a Tollean way of trying to develop better oneness with the “Now” seem attainable, but not particularly desirable. In any case you mention at the end of your review that there is a need for a positive alternative before launching into a lengthy critique. I agree. For several years I have been very impressed with the works of Karen Horney, M.D. (“Horn-eye,” not “horny,” 1885–1952) and her disciples who have been influenced by and applied her thinking in American history (David M. Potter, 1910–1971), Sovietology/biography (Robert C. Tucker, 1918–2010), Victorian literary criticism (Bernard J. Paris, b. 1931, founder of the International Karen Horney Society website and one of her biographers); and within psychology, Harold Kelman (1906–1977, editor of Feminine Psychology, compiled from Horney’s 1922–1937 works on the subject) and Andrew N. Tershakovec (1921–2007). Are you familiar with any of these authors? It is probably not “fair,” in a sense, to counterpose these erudite, academic authors against Eckhart Tolle, but to me they offer the best possibility of a coherent rebuttal to Tolle. Sorry about all the extraneous detail, by the way.

The best argument against Ekhart Tolles is ad hominum. So he’s a minor league philosopher. But as to Tolles himself? A complete creep. No feelings no life nothing just an empty shell. Listen to him talk. Does anybody want to wind up like that? He’s a loner. “Don’t hang around people and you wont be disappointed.” On the other hand what kind of life is that? Ive known one person who was into Tolles. He went through periods of depression. He also could not feel. He could not cry. So for these types maybe Tolles provides a service. As to his books and lectures, they are valuable BECAUSE they are derivative. Anything coming directly from the heart and soul of Tolles would be very empty.

To me the argument against monism is probably the same as yours, David. In the end I think that to question what it means to say “I am God” o “We’re all God”, we have to question what we mean by all those words. Words have assumptions, we have to examine what is behind those words: “I/We”, “God”, and especially the verb “to be”.

In some way you can argue we’re all “the spirit” like hegel said, because like you’re trying to argue, boundaries don’t have an objective way to be drawn. Exactly because there is no objective way to draw those boundaries is because it’s very tempting to draw the boundary that We’re all One. Add to that the fact that you can FEEL it, just like you can feel god, and it’s very hard to give up that idea (I know because I felt it once. And I felt very warm and fuzzy i.
nside)
So, how can we tear down that idea, or at least, show its limits? Here’s what I propose.

1. Show that “just cause you feel it doesn’t mean it’s there”: People can feel a lot of things that are disconnected to reality.

2. Connect the theory to reality. I think THE main flaw of most philosophical arguments is disconnection from reality. That’s why Wittgenstein said “look don’t think”, it’s not that he didn’t want people to think. It’s just that when you think and only think, it’s very easy to pill down abstractions on abstractions without actually getting anywhere in reality. So we need to pin down how “All is One” vs “All isn’t One” breaks down in reality, with actual examples that matter.

The above poster mentioned a very good example. I think you said it earlier too. Just because in some way, we’re all part of the same universe and we’re all born in the same global system of causes and effects that defined not only us but also all of humanity and nature that we can connect to doesn’t change the fact that our minds don’t think at the same time, don’t feel the same things, don’t know the same things, and that we’re “disconnected” in very meaningful senses. If someone “gets” this I think it shows that either “All is one” or “all is not one” are just words that don’t tell everything about reality when taken as “fact” rather than just a model of what actually happens in reality, i.e. the map is not the territory.

Ok, let’s get our hands dirty :)

I think you have hinted about how does “all in one” breaks down in reality here http://meaningness.com/self-schematic-overview . After all, one most basic implications of “all is one” is that it recommends letting go of the self, the ego, one’s identity, “the self is only an illusion”. An associated idea is about “living in the present”, and not paying much attention to the present or the future. So, in practice, what’s so wrong about this?

Well, as with many words, the word “illusion” is one that has many assumptions hidden. What’s an “illusion”? The word connotes something that seems to be there but it’s not actually there. Why does the self seem an illusion? Because when you observe it a long time, it might seems like it’s not a real thing, after all, it’s always changing, it’s influenced by external forces, it’s contradictory. So it’s tempting to get rid of it, after all, it’s the source of all suffering.

But I think that without a real sense of self, without an identity, you run the risk of becoming an empty shell of a human being. Suffering is part of what makes us human, and while wallowing in suffering all the time and being fixiated on past and future can be harmful, I believe the other extreme requires getting rid of your humanity, making bonds with people that is actually around you and not only figuratively in your mind because you’re God just like everyone</stong>, and suffering and being happy, both of them, because of those very same bonds.

I think ” I believe the other extreme requires getting rid of your humanity, making bonds” should say something like “I believe the other extreme requires getting rid of your humanity by avoiding making bonds…”

David,

You keep saying that Monism doesn’t work, and what you seem to mean by that isthat an unacted-on belief in Monism doesn’t work.

If so, nothing could be further from what Tolle says than “Add an idea called monism to the 1000 ideas you have already, and it will automatically make you happy”.

That kind of thing is part of the problem as he diagnoses it. The therapy is practice, not ideology - the practices of increased mindfullness and not getting lost in the past or future.

Hi David,

This page seems to be very popular. It shows up high on google when you search for “critcism of Eckhart Tolle”. Looks like it’ll be one of the main routes of discovery for people to your website.

I was following Tolle’s teaching for the last 2 years and reading this post was a big part of what finally set me free. I guess you’re trying to understand what goes through the mind of people following it, so I’ll explain my own experience with it.

Firstly, a common problem people have is anxiety, compulsive thought patterns, and emotional discomfort. That’s probably the main route of entry for finding Tolle’s teachings. He sells himself as a “self-help” author obviously.

However the strategy is in fact pretty unique and original. You learn techniques such as “observing your thoughts” or “observing your pain-body” [emotional discomfort] to calm yourself down.

In fact, a psychotherapist further recommended Tolle to me when I told her that the techniques she told me to use were similar. Otherwise, I would have been able to avoid him altogether. Your link about psychotherapy and some New Agey stuff is spot-on.

What really hooks you, once you’re in, is the explanation that “you are not your mind”. That is to say, all your thoughts, as well as emotions, are a set of conditioned reactions known as the ego. Furthermore, the ego is dysfunctional because it “thinks compulsively” thus creating problems for itself. If you’re calm, you will reach a higher level of existence which is “presence” and can manifest positive experiences in your outer life as well.

In light of this explanation, the obvious reaction is to ignore your thoughts. Ignore your ego, anything it is trying to tell you. It is just trying to create problems. Thus, any new thoughts that you are unable to suppress that arise, that constantly assault you trying to tell you of the stupidity of what you are doing, must be ignored. Basically, the rationale you have underneath it all is that the ego feels threatened and does not want to die. The more you can ignore it, the better you are doing.

It’s easy to get caught in this holding pattern for a long time, and very difficult to break out of it. Furthermore, if you do actually have positive experiences, it only reinforces doing this. If you have negative experiences, “that’s a good thing because it will demolish your ego”.

Finally, it cannot be overemphasized that it is the mental health aspect of it, and especially the fact that there is a marginal benefit on the mental/emotional side, that is the main driving force for so many people following it. Without that, it would just be a hokum set of weird beliefs that no one cares about. There were numerous occasions where I really got caught up in painfully energized thought processes of how this is wrong, and when they passed I “felt better” in happy, languid non-thinking state, and this is how you fall back into it saying “see, it’s working”.

It should be noted I was skeptical and never believed in this even while I was practicing it. That’s another part of the ingenuity. He says, “your mind doesn’t have to believe in it for you to practice it.” You can “rise above” your thoughts anyway. Even thought it was always too sketchy for me to be able to get committed to it 100%, it’s a pattern of thinking that dominated how I think and view of the world for 2 years… and I wish I could get them back now.

Thus, I’m not exactly sure what a great solution for breaking people out of such a holding pattern could be, considering that thinking is equated to poison. Any argument you throw against it can just be taken to be words and thoughts, it’s the other person’s ego trying to suck you in, so you must be present, alert and rise above it in a non-thinking state.

For me, at first, positive stuff happened so unfortunately that only reinforced it. I got out of it because of the eventual slowly accumulating weight of the negative experiences that happened to me. You become powerless to control your actions or take any proactive action to improve your situation because you’re not even supposed to be thinking or complaining about it! Thus, habits and lifestyle can slowly get worse and worse over time. Eventually, it came to a head and I couldn’t take it anymore.

Then I found your post, which is very good in that matter. Simply showing it as a “big lie” with no justification whatsoever is an appropriate response for something that does not justify itself. The way you deconstructed it is really good.

As previously mentioned, an ad hominem attack – the immediacy and strict gut-wrenching shock value of it, can be enough to shock people out of it. I read this and I was absolutely shocked and disgusted. The idea that he could be lying made me very angry, and I even became suicidal for a couple days. It really was a trauma. For the record, I do actually believe now that he is knowingly lying, but of course there is no way to be certain.

Even if thinking his ideas were wrong, I was able to console myself often with the supposition that he at least believes in them himself, that he is sincere and honest. Once you start questioning the integrity of the man himself, it’s a whole new ball-game in terms of breaking down that barrier. In particular, the photos of him which appear in magazines, the airs he puts on, the ways he speaks, it’s easy to start imagining it as constructed showboating, which was very effective in terms of kicking my reality sensor on.

Anyway, that’s my experience. I hope it’s not too long and boring.

I have not read Tolle’s works, but it seems that what he is arguing for is greater receptivity to emotions and feelings — Kahneman’s (2011) “System 1,” or “fast” thinking, which corresponds to Tershakovec’s (2007) “parallel-distributed processing.” We need that, and it seems that our logico-rational abilities are built up from the basic emotions and more complex feelings. But it is going too far to suppose, as Tolle seems to do, that we should now rely only on emotions and feelings, “accept the now” and reject the not-now (how?), and wholly discard the other type of mentation, which is Kahneman’s “System 2,” or “slow” thinking, which corresponds to Tershakovec’s “serial [linear] processing.”

As Tershakovec wrote in his extension of the synchronic psychoanalytic theory of Karen Horney — which stands at right angles to its Freudian predecessor:

« We must remember, however, that feelings are not some
unfailing oracle of truth just by virtue of being feelings.
They speak for the unconscious self, and that self may
be wiser and closer to reality than the conscious self, but
it may also be the top of a neurotic self, may reflect a
distorted emotional code, or else it may be just groping
its way in the world. The conscious system may sponsor
neurotic shortcuts, and the recursive procedures designed
to rid us of them and to bring us back to reality are a trial
and error process. As a result, there are “neurotic” dreams.
We should also remember that the parallel system relies
on the conscious system for a sense of time and causality
and that the serial system cannot assimilate input from
the unconscious that is too incongruent with its current
model of the-self-in-the-world. This makes the fusion of
the conscious and unconscious via recursive procedures a
measured, complex, and incremental process. »

• The Mind: The Power that Changed the Planet, pp. 228–229

Religion is a failure mode of other things, a very widespread one with very consistent patterns. If people are told to avoid useless thinking, but that thinking is perfectly Ok for practical purposes, many of them will simplify and exagerate that into “never think”, because simplifying and exagerating is what taking something religiously is. And deifying people who explicitly tell them they don’t want to be deified, and relentless forced cheerfulness and all the rest of it…

Hi, I changed my mind: I would prefer not to receive comments notification, but when I click the link sent in the e-mail to unsubscribe, I reach a page that says “error. please try again later”.

Tolle cannot possible have become an expert at Eastern mysticism overnight. Anybody who claims to be an Eastern Teacher or who others consider an eastern master or whatever you want to call them, had to have sat at the feet of someone who was a master and learned from them. And to learn anthing of any consequence takes considerable time.
The other thing is that those in India who are considered great teachers do not take money for their teaching. Just that one thing exposes him to be a charletin or a fake. Many serious teachers in India go around teaching small groups and all they receive is just enough to pay for their basic needs.
And nothing he has said in his books is new and has not been said by other teachers who have much more valid credentials than does he.
Those who receive who he says only prove how deprived and ignorant they are.. kind of like the Beatles when they had their fase of trying to follow some Eastern teacher and later they admitted he took them for a ride and they did not continue with that kind of seeking after truth any further… So that is about it…
Do a little study and seeking and you will see this guy is a huge phoney.... Chow for now..... out

I love Eckhart Tolle. I don’t believe he is selling anything at all… just speaking from a place of truth.

He quotes other spiritual leaders because many of them experienced the same kind of truth, just interpreted through different words. After centuries of being passed down, there has been a lot of misinterpretation, but the same truth still shines through.

The mind is awesome. It’s incredible and powerful. But it’s not “you”. That’s why you’re getting tripped up in your assessment.

What’s a “you” in the first place? The body? No… Because the cells are replaced every 7 years.

Is it the mind? No… Because you don’t vanish when you stop thinking. (Although I doubt you spend much time in silence.)

You literally can’t perceive something that is “you”, because the act of perceiving it would mean it’s not you.

Experiencing it depends on how you define “you”. There’s definitely a person, a life story, a being. The illusion is just that it all implies an actual “you”.

I don’t expect you to understand it, because it’s really hard to explain conceptually. But once you’ve experienced it, you can’t go back. It is incredibly obvious.

In my experience it’s completely obvious that there is an I, as self, that persists through all its state changes.

This book came to me when I was 22 and set me on the path to meditation & awareness. I like how Tolle transcends organized religion to unify all people. I like how he speaks confidently and simply explains Presence, Being, the ego, pain-body, etc. It was the first time I was aware of my own negative reaction to specific triggers, at home with my parents, at work, in everyday social interactions. The book helped me become mindful of how my actions & reactions affected other people. I think that is invaluable.

I see a shift in the human consciousness, as Tolle outlines in the beginning of ANE. People are starting to transcend boundaries that have separated humankind since our beginnings: race, religion, gender. On the other side there is the resistance to this kind of change, where there is violence, bigotry, hatred, radicalism, in response to this growth of consciousness. I think humanity is reaching a breaking point. But now I’m starting to trail off lol

I respect all of your opinions. David, your writing is superb, I can tell you’re very educated on philosophical rhetoric to say the least. I challenge you to look past all the labels you might have placed on Tolle’s words. “Monist eternalism”… I’ve never heard the term til I read your post, that didn’t stop me from taking something valuable from this book, perhaps it did for you. Another poster here said it, but it’s hard to describe, consciousness has to be something you’re ready for. I can’t show that to you. All i can do is be present.

One last thing, I’ve been entertaining this thought for years, but when i read this book it gave me further confirmation of it. When thinking of the phrase “All is One”, think of a human. One human. Then zoom in with a microscope and see all the millions of cells that make up one human, the muscle tissue, veins, bones, hair follicles on the surface. And now zoom out to planet earth. One planet. Made up of billions of humans, plants and animals. Zoom out again. One galaxy. And so on.

This is how I link together the spirituality I feel and science that can be proven. They are one in the same.

I came upon this website of yours because I I am searching for a rebuttal to Eckhart Tolle. I believed and still kind of believe in the things he says but I don’t want to believe things that are not true and I don’t want to be manipulated by a guru leader. I am extremely interested in philosophy and I listen to the philosophy podcast almost every day now and the post suggested that if you have a belief, it is a leap of faith because beliefs cannot be proven to be true or untrue and if you choose to believe it that is fine but you should really realize that it is not truth. It is a leap of faith. Most people believe in things because it makes them more comfortable. I know that Eckert tolle’s work makes me feel more comfortable. But being comfortable does not mean it is true. There are plenty of truths out there (or at least things that most humans unanimously believe to be truth) that are uncomfortable. But we will never know pure truth as mortals. We can only try to get closer to it as much as we can. But the thing that we also have to realize is that Our beliefs don’t only affect us. We affect others as well. There are some beliefs out there that hurt others but people believe them because they want to believe them. A person can really convince himself to believe anything if they try hard enough and if they want to. If I were to meet Eckhart Tolle so far I have two questions I would ask him. The first question would be why do you make money off of your books and seminars and merchandise? Some of his seminars are very very expensive. If you do not do anything with your money, which I know that is not the case, then why? Are there charities that you give to? Apparently Eckhart Tolle is one of the richest men in America. I have been told that the Dalai Lama and Thich Nhat Hanh don’t make money off of their wisdom but honestly I would have to research that more to see if it was true. The second question that I would ask, which is much more philosophical, is when you say that something is true, which after he says he knows it because he just knows it or it’s in his heart, isn’t that egoic? Because what if someone else says that what he saying saying is not true because they know and it’s in their heart. Who is right? If Eckert tolle says that something he believes or says is right or true doesn’t that make him egoic? When people believe in and follow what another person says, even if they are spouting wisdom, they have the potential to be manipulated. Knowing that you were manipulated is a very difficult thing, especially when you are following someone that says something that you want to believe. We are manipulated all the time in our society. That’s a huge part of capitalism. The clothes that we wear, the products that we buy etc. the news that we watch, i’ll come from a source. And often times those sources are popping up on her computer screens, billboards, TVs and even through our friends. If we are not aware of what or who we are manipulated by or could potentially be manipulated by then we are not really in control of ourselves. Being in control of yourself is a huge part of freedom. I know that you can’t be completely control of yourself when you live in a structured society but your goal should be, I think as a human being, to be conscious and aware as Tolle says and if you are conscious and aware you will be aware of who and where your thoughts and beliefs and motivations stem from. I once saw a therapist who, on the first day of therapy, said that the goal of our therapy sessions is to not need the therapist anymore. I don’t know if that is Tolle’s goal but it should be. But if he said that then he would have less followers and make less money. I also wonder where Eckardt would turn if he ever had a question or something he was unsure of. Himself? If he’s so high up in his wisdom and knowledge then he can’t even ask other peoples opinions because he is the all knowing. He has the answers. But if he doesn’t have all of the answers to everything then he would need to feel comfort with not knowing. And perhaps that is the central thing that People need to develop. The ability to be ok with not knowing. I think that is a point of wisdom that should be addressed. But the problem is, he is and example for so many people and people want to become like him. And what he represents is this all knowing being with answers to everything. Or at least almost everything. Is that how we all want to be? Is that what we should strive to be? The kind of person who sits on a stage above people and answers their questions that are written on a piece of paper? That position holds A LOT of power. Thank you for the work that you are doing. I totally support it because we really should question our beliefs. You are doing the work that many people aren’t willing to do or can’t do. You will get a lot of anger and discomfort from people but don’t let that discourage you. Please forgive me if I have any typos. I basically spewed this all from the top of my head and I don’t feel like going back and correcting all of the typos!

I have not read New Earth but am slightly familiar with Tolle’s beliefs. If you think as you term it “monisn” as Tolle expresses it is an error, then you are rejecting the entire school of Advaita Vedanta., in which the core idea is “Thou art That”. My own experience of 55 years with this stuff has led me organically to this conclusion as the truth of being.

I think part of the problem here is that it is not an intellectual construct but an ever deepening experience into the reality of existence. Because it can be expressed intellectually, a common inherent belief or feeling or assumption might be that realizing such a truth should be rather easy. Simple (I am that which is ever present) and easy (being able to truly experience it) are two different things. It has taken me half a century to begin to really understand and plumb the depths of such a profound statement.

Americans like things quick. Instant coffee. Have it done yesterday. Profound problems should have easy solutions. There is a terrible shallowness in the culture that cannot deal with complexity, maturity, layers, dialectics and how powerful deep seated issues, both personal and collective can be,

As I move from a more dual stance, first with a true Indian Sat Guru in flesh for 20 years, to the understanding that he, and everyone are a vehicle for something far vaster so I became less dependent on n o particular form or teaching, (such as a particular way, or angels, guides etc) to a much deeper meditation in which immersion in only what is as it chooses to present itself is commonplace, this realization comes more into experience and view.

So I have no issue with the philosophy because imo it is grounded in truth However it seems one may take issue with the presentation because it can come across as facile. I also believe in not rejecting the individuated identity out of hand as the process is delicate, ego gets a bad rap and in this drama of human life, there are many levels in which various healing or even philosophical modalities (psychology, traditional medicine, some forms of inner work emotionally, etc) have great value. There is no one size fits all. The journey is unique to the individual and to circumstance.

I know Buddhism has a different foundation. I admire Buddhism greatly but believe it is misguided in rejecting an organized intelligent center to this Universe (among other things such as “no self). But much can be semantic. Does Grace exist or is it just “auspicious coincidence”. My experience tells me the former.

This dialogue (Americans are impatient) cannot be dealt with in any way shape or form fully in a comment on a page. It is the deepest question before humanity. What or who am I (and us) and what are the ramifications of that question and its answers, beyond talk into how we live.

The more I understand “I am That”, and align with that truth, the more things open, the more a greater flow has spaciousness to move, there is less reliance on the mind and individual identity. Either this is true or it isn’t. If it is true, certain ways in which things work fall into place and more things become comprehensible. Rumi-“You think you re a drop in the mighty ocean, in truth you are the mighty ocean contained in a drop”

I read much of what you wrote. If it is not true, then what is? I do find Tolle too glib at times and I find many western teachers trying to present a “get enlightened in a week” approach. You will not get this from true Indian teachers, or true teachers from any tradition. In this I would agree there is a certain lack of groundedness. As I said, in my experience this realization does not come easily. It is called “The Pearl Beyond Price” for a reason. You think you will truly grasp it from a book, or a seminar? Puleeze.

K so used quite a few words for these stories. Course Eckhart doesn’t get as ‘deep intense or other worldleee’ then spiritual teachers from the East, which is the really cool thing about his work. And he freely acknowledges that. Cuz we are fairly shallow…. too shallow, too busy running full speed to nowhere & have been conditioned to become far too accustomed to that ‘immediate gratification ‘ to grasp even the simplest teachings.
Eckhart doesn’t complicate the livin shit outta stuff that’s already beyond complex for most people to grasp, he simplifies it all; his take on ‘ego’ may not mimic Freud’s but who cares, makes sense to me… and maybe one or two others. Obviously society or as he’s put it, something like ‘the manifestation of current human evolution’ isn’t exactly an endless day at the beach. There is a tremendous amount of suffering out there, people are loosing it, it’s like there’s some kinda really fucked up highly toxic ugly contagious cancer goin around & if some people (us humans) have found someone to help us, who’s clearly bright, well read & wise…. what exactly is the prob???
He’s clearly gifted with a unique sense of humor & that common sense approach…. imparting pretty tuff deep teachings we here in the West haven’t been shown or taught. Doesn’t even matter why or how or if… he’s literally touched millions of people in ways I’m not sure anyone else has. And really, he’s probably the biggest reason I’m here writing you this.
So cut the little dude a break, he’s fucking brilliant. If you’ve got issues with him that’s cool but really, ask yourself why…. when he’s helped so many of us to see things in such a healthier way, to wake up from a lonely, scary dark place… and it’s all based in love, compassion, self awareness, truth, presence, understanding & consciousness. So freeing, so peaceful. Don’t see a big problem with that wake up call.
As a side note here I never ever post anything, rarely react to much these days having learned the true nature of constantly reacting to everyone & everything around us is one of the deep routes of profound suffering (simply put, understatement is an understatement)… so this is pretty wild for me, kinda like I’m defending a baby who I love so much & feel this need to protect kinda like I owe him cuz he saved me…..
Probably cuz I do
Cuz he has
So let’s just reel in the ickeee negative judgements shall we, really, who do they serve ?? Then again everyone’s entitled to say whatever they want so Namaste my friend….
Rock on, peace out 🙏

I’ll make this short (er). I like Tolle, I really do but when I signed up for a “free” talk and meditation and then got bombarded with solicitations for workshops, seminars etc it felt disingenuous, way too slick, and self serving.

The man clearly has insights and I think has authentic illumination. We each respond to various conduits the Universe provides. I just thought that this presentation was too glib and that could lead to distress for some. (“Why aren’t I getting it”)

Maybe I was unfair and in a more in depth setting, there is more ” beef” for people to chew on. He certainly points people in the right direction. If he floats your boat, great. He’s a big boy. i don’t think he needs your protection but if you feel inclined, so be it.

There are those much more caustic than me (why is questioning him “negativity”? )and I admit I am way too wordy, which I need to rein in. Squirreling away $80 million will do that for some people but that is not my business. but it does give me pause.

Ram Dass died with nothing because he continually gave it all away. If it’s all so ephemeral, there seems to be some major clinging going on. But as you pointed out, I have my own issues to clean up

I’m glad he works for you. I have learned most of us have contradictions so we take what resonates. I know many have been helped by him. This is all done by Source anyway. Who is the doer? Nothing is ever out of place

Take care

If I was to say everything I had to say on this matter and on this article and comment section, I’d write a book. So let’s keep simple. One user commented on the mental aspect of Tolle’s teachings. It sounds like textbook dissociation to me. You put yourself above the ego, merely observing your thoughts and emotions but not identifying with them. I agree that it can make you a shell of a human being because I suffer from dissociation myself caused by trauma. It’s a way to deal with the suffering and protect yourself from further harm. But it doesn’t actually improve your mental health, it doesn’t fix the problem, the suffering. And it would be a mistake to think that the ego is the problem, to dissociate yourself from the world around you like that, a world that gives you every reason to suffer - from war, economic turmoil, racism and so on. Is it more spiritual to run from the pain, to distance yourself from the world, or to face the pain, fully immerse yourself in the world and embrace your humanity and fight for meaningful change?